working4christ2 catholic answers forum 4 dummies

Paul Fekete · #16 Today, 1:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aemcpa

Clearly all those who die in unrepentant mortal sin go to Hell. The question is whether God will accept the personal repentance of those sinners who have true contrition but who do not understand the need for sacramental confession. We don't know the answer to that question.

Great question. What if they openly and publically reject their need for sacramental confession? Does that send them to hell? Also, without an answer to this question it will just keep coming up over and over again as many people (like me) have loved ones who are protestants. Why can't the church give clear direction on this? Should they give clear direction on this? Why would what is true for Catholic Christians not also be true for Protestant Christians who have the same Bible versus (John 20: 21-23 and 1 John 5:16-17)? It just does not seem to add up.

Paul Fekete · #17 Today, 1:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neofight

God gives grace, perhaps he withholds grace, but he never repossesses grace!

So committing a mortal sin does not cause God to remove His grace from your soul?

specialhead · #18 Today, 1:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Fekete

If God removes His Spirit of Grace from a Catholic who breaks a ten commandment willfully with full knowledge and consent, does God also remove his Grace from a protestant who breaks a ten commandment willfully with full knowledge and consent? Protestants know the Ten Commandments and know that breaking them is a serious sin so why would God not remove his Spirit of Grace from them in the same way God removes His Spirit of Grace from Catholics?

As Saint Paul said-- if you are under the LAW then you have to do everything according to that religious LAW-- if you break one thing of that law--

But Protestants are not under the Roam catholic LAW-of works

- they are under the LAW of GRACE--

and there is a difference

Paul Fekete · Today, 11:51 am

If God removes His Spirit of Grace from a Catholic who breaks a ten commandment willfully with full knowledge and consent, does God also remove his Grace from a protestant who breaks a ten commandment willfully with full knowledge and consent? Protestants know the Ten Commandments and know that breaking them is a serious sin so why would God not remove his Spirit of Grace from them in the same way God removes His Spirit of Grace from Catholics?

RaiseMeUp · #2 Today, 11:53 am

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:22

Paul Fekete · #3 Today, 11:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiseMeUp

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:22

So the only way for protestants to regain God's grace after breaking a ten commandment is by becoming a Cathoilic and participating in the sacrament of penance? Does this not mean that 99.9% of protestants are in a state of death since 99.9% of protestants have broken a ten commandment in their life?

Rachel126 · #4 Today, 12:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Fekete

So the only way for protestants to regain God's grace after breaking a ten commandment is by becoming a Cathoilic and participating in the sacrament of penance? Does this not mean that 99.9% of protestants are in a state of death since 99.9% of protestants have broken a ten commandment in their life?

1. The poster did not state that.
2. The Church does not teach this.
3. Breaking a commandment does not necessarily equal mortal sin (reference my post on your other thread about Protestants).

I honestly think you would benefit from talking with a priest about all of this. You seem very focused on it, and a priest may help you ease your mind about these things.

Paul Fekete · #5 Today, 12:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel126

Breaking a commandment does not necessarily equal mortal sin (reference my post on your other thread about Protestants).

Protestants who break a ten commandemt do it willfully and with full knowledge and consent. What am I missing here other than the fact that nobody is willing to state the obvious fact that there is no forgiveness of mortal sins outside of the Catholic chruch? Why is that so hard for people to say? Maybe if people started to teach this truth more people would join the Catholic church? It's almost as if you are apologizing or are embaressed for what the Catholic Catechism teaches so clearly about mortal sins and the need for absolution by a Catholic priest. Does the Catholic church shy away from this truth becasue it may be offensive to people? Would it not be better to offend protestants then to encourage them to travel down a path towards hell?

Rachel126 · #6 Today, 12:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Fekete

Protestants who break a ten commandemt do it willfully and with full knowledge and consent. What am I missing here other than the fact that nobody is willing to state the obvious fact that there is no forgiveness of mortal sins outside of the Catholic chruch? Why is that so hard for people to say? Maybe if people started to teach this truth more people would join the Catholic church? It's almost as if you are apologizing or are embaressed for what the Catholic Catechism teaches so clearly about mortal sins and the need for absolution by a Catholic priest. Does the Catholic church shy away from this truth becasue it maybe offensive to people? Would it not be better to offend protestants then to encourage them to travel down a path towards hell?

I think you've made up your mind about this already. Which is fine--you are free to feel about this as you want. However, you should know that your opinion is at odds with the teachings of the Church, so please don't present it to others as a teaching of the Church. If you go around telling all your Protestant relatives that they are all going to hell just because they are Protestants, they are likely to become hardened against the Catholic Church.

RaiseMeUp · #7 Today, 12:28 pm

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

aemcpa · #8 Today, 12:42 pm

Neofight · #9 Today, 12:45 pm

God gives grace, perhaps he withholds grace, but he never repossesses grace!

capablanca911 · #10 Today, 12:46 pm

Did we forget the preceding paragraph?

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324

Rence · #11 Today, 12:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Fekete

Protestants who break a ten commandemt do it willfully and with full knowledge and consent. What am I missing here other than the fact that nobody is willing to state the obvious fact that there is no forgiveness of mortal sins outside of the Catholic chruch? Why is that so hard for people to say? Maybe if people started to teach this truth more people would join the Catholic church? It's almost as if you are apologizing or are embaressed for what the Catholic Catechism teaches so clearly about mortal sins and the need for absolution by a Catholic priest. Does the Catholic church shy away from this truth becasue it may be offensive to people? Would it not be better to offend protestants then to encourage them to travel down a path towards hell?

The Church doesn't teach this because it's not true.

aemcpa · #12 Today, 12:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rence

The Church doesn't teach this because it's not true.

Certainly it can't be easier to be saved if one never becomes Catholic. The Church doesn't teach about how or if anyone is saved apart from the Sacraments, but she also doesn't teach that it's impossible.

Paul Fekete · #13 Today, 1:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aemcpa

Certainly it can't be easier to be saved if one never becomes Catholic. The Church doesn't teach about how or if anyone is saved apart from the Sacraments, but she also doesn't teach that it's impossible.

This seems like a contradiction:

The Bible is clear that you lose God's grace when you commit a grave sin, but we have no idea if protestants who commit grave sins still go to heaven. It seems like you want it both ways here. I believe that God does not send people to hell and that people send themselves to hell in their rejection of Jesus. In my view, the only 100% clear mortal sin is to reject Jesus as the Son of God and Messiah. Is expanding mortal sins beyond the open rejection of Jesus clearly taught in the Bible? Is 1 John 5:16-17 taking about the open rejection of Jesus as the Messiag or willfully breaking a ten commandment with full knowledge and consent?

Paul Fekete · #14 Today, 1:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rence

The Church doesn't teach this because it's not true.

OK please provide the method by which protestants have their grave sins forgiven outside of absolution by a Catholic priest? If you are going to say it is not true can you also explain how salvation occurs for protestants who commit grave sins? How do my protestant friends and family members lose their salvation? I need to know how this happens so that I can warn them.

aemcpa · #15 Today, 1:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Fekete

This seems like a contradiction:

The Bible is clear that you lose God's grace when you commit a grave sin, but we have no idea if protestants who commit grave sins still go to heaven. It seems like you want it both ways here. I believe that God does not send people to hell and that people send themselves to hell in their rejection of Jesus. In my view, the only 100% clear mortal sin is to reject Jesus as the Son of God and Messiah. Is expanding mortal sins beyond the open rejection of Jesus clearly taught in the Bible? Is 1 John 5:16-17 taking about the open rejection of Jesus as the Messiag or willfully breaking a ten commandment with full knowledge and consent?

Clearly all those who die in unrepentant mortal sin go to Hell. The question is whether God will accept the personal repentance of those sinners who have true contrition but who do not understand the need for sacramental confession. We don't know the answer to that question.

working4christ2 catholic answers forum 4 dummies

Wednesday, July 31, 2013

catholic answers forum 4 dummies working4christ2 Does God remove His baptismal Grace from Protestants?

catholic answers forum 4 dummies working4christ2 --Does God remove His baptismal Grace from Protestants?